Rangers

Motherwell board says loss of Rangers could put Well into administration

The vote on a newco Rangers entering the SPL could plunge Motherwell into administration whether they are admitted to the league or not, the club has told fans.

In guidance issued to supporters of the Lanarkshire club, posted on the Motherwell fans’ site Fir Park Corner, Motherwell estimated that it would lose more than £900,000 in income without Rangers in the league.

That sum will have to be balanced out with investment from the fans, otherwise it could be tipped into administration, says the club’s board.

Motherwell FC is in the process of moving to a fan ownership model, as majority shareholder John Boyle pledges his stake in the Fir Park club to a group of supporters in the form of the Well Society.

The society’s members are being polled on whether to allow a newco to enter the SPL after Rangers FC began the process of being liquidated.

The breakdown of costs that Motherwell foresee if the newco is voted out of the league are a loss of £600,000 from SPL revenues, made up of sponsorships and the television deal for the league.

The club expects to lose £275,000 in gate receipts from Rangers supporters and estimates a drop of £40,000 in matchday hospitality and sponsorship.

If the newco is allowed to enter the SPL, Motherwell still expects to make losses in gate receipts as it anticipates that fans will stay away for reasons of “sporting integrity”.

In conclusion, the guidance note states: “Whatever decision is made on the newco vote by the SPL clubs, the financial position of Motherwell Football Club will suffer. There are clear risks to the financial stability and very future of this club presented by the current situation.

“In the event of serious financial difficulty, the board will have to look to the members, shareholders and supporters to step up their support for the club and the Well Society. This is likely to be in the form of increased prices, higher attendances and further Society memberships and contributions.

“It is clear that if we are unable to replace significant amounts of income lost under either scenario, the club would be facing an insolvency event. This would lead to a 21 point reduction.”

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And here we have the beginning of the Motherwell board propaganda campaign to frighten the supporters into accepting a brand new football club into the SPL.

We can only hope that the supporters see through this blatant attempt by their board to manipulate them into accepting a bunch of cheats and tax dodgers into the SPL.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Do their figures take into account the fact the supporters will boycott Motherwell for as long as they exist if they vote to allow a completely new football club into the SPL?

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Lazy succulent lamb journalism!

Base a headline around 1 sentence which begins with IF!

Is this what we can expect from now until July, Rangers playing squad could all walk away as free agents can we expect a "No Players for New Rangers" Headline? Didn't think so mint sauce anyone?

Ali_M 23/06/2012 Report this place
Maybe Rangers' fans will NOW see what damage their Club is inflicting on Scottish Football..Other clubs are being put between a rock and a hard place because of you...
And that's excluding of course money they owe for players/gate recepits etc; to other Scottish Clubs....which is a separate issue...but very relevant.(How come they can declare money received from Transfer Fees ,by the way,... in their accounts?)...
I expect, now, as a result of this post...there will be apologies and contrition shown by all concerned connected with this Club.
Need to go ..it's medication time.

Mikey 23/06/2012 Report this place
Scaremongering Garbage !
No mention of Champions League involvement this season and the possibility of future European campaigns or races for the CL places??
IF sky do decide to re-negotiate the tv deal when it runs out in 2 YEARS TIME, Then ALL SPL teams will have to cut their cloth accordingly, I personnally believe this will be a boost for young scottish talent & the Scotland team
And the alternate is to allow a brand new team to jump 3 divisions & enter the SPL, just because they have bought the stadium of an extinct club??
Sporting integrity must be upheld - VOTE NO !!!

Docs 23/06/2012 Report this place
This is the reality for many clubs. Rangers were negligent in their finances, they did not cover up anything more sinister. The club has been liquidated, kicked out of Europe docked points and fined. Yet people want more? The problem is, Rangers will survive in some form on its own gate money, once you have prescribed an awful punishment, you need to hand it out to all who fall ill.

Rob25 23/06/2012 Report this place
@Rob25

No one wants anything from the now defunct Rangers Football Club (In Liquidation).

We just want the new Charles Green FC to abide by the rules which *every* other club in Scotland has to.

It hasn't been kicked out of anything, a club needs to supply 3 years of accounts to qualify for Europe, something a club formed two weeks ago can't do.

It's not a punishment, that's what happens to all new clubs.

Fans of Scottish clubs are fed up with the now defunct RFC(IL) and the proposed Charles Green FC thinking they can walk all over the rules as if they don't apply to them.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Scottish Premier League clubs will meet at Hampden on Thursday to discuss the implications of their Rangers 'newco' vote on the 4th of July.

All clubs, except Rangers, are expected to gather for a pre-vote debate.

During this debate the reality of an SPL without The Glasgow Rangers will be spelled out to the attendees.

Motherwell have done the maths which others seem incapable of; as I have said previously the domino effect will bring less sponsorship, less television deals, less gate receipts, et al; reality check is required for the survival of Scottish football as we know it.

The option is clear for all who view this through normal un-tinted lenses!

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
The only 'option' is this : Apply the currently existing rules fairly and evenly, to all clubs, and prospective clubs.

Anything else would mean that Scottish football would forever be tainted by corruption.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Declan, You are of course spot-on, however I would save your breath because the living dead i.e rob25 have real trouble coming to terms with reality. I believe it`s part of the grief process, Then again again they`ve spent the last 3 years with their head in the sand "it`ll never happen cos we arra peepil" :O)

Rob25 - I`ll try and make this really simple for you, using your own statements.

The club has been liquidated - Correct & you rightly point out that it was through their own financial negligence, mainly due to murray chasing an impossible dream - of matching the first northern european team to win the BIG cup.

Kicked out of europe - Declan has already covered this point, You haven`t been kicked out of anything, UEFA rules are quite clear - new teams do not meet the requirements!! I would like to add that UEFA also require audited accounts to be submitted for an SFA licence to play in europe - this has been overlooked in rangers(extinct) case for the past 3 seasons.They have cheated teams out of Champions League revenue.

Docked points- 10 pts are automatically deducted for EVERY team that enters administration

Fined - 100k fine (which your team has no way of paying) for bringing the game into disrepute,by not carrying out due dilligence on your current corrupt owner Craig Whyte - Of course that was only part of the decree & your decision to take the case to civil court (in direct contradiction of FIFA guidelines) leaves SFA with no option but to remove their licence for a year.

So Rob25 - there is no "awful punishment" in fact the SFA & SPL have bent over backwards & changed their own rules to try and accomodate the most corrupt club in world history, no wonder you will always be remembered as scotlands shame.

Docs 23/06/2012 Report this place
Strange how the document neglects to mention that without Rangers, Motherwell would have finished second, gaining an addition £965,000 from SPL prize money.

Gee, I wonder why they didn't mention that...

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Strange how the document neglects to mention that without Rangers, Motherwell would have finished second!

Probably because it is absolute nonsense!

Without Rangers!

Do you mean had Rangers not played?
Do you mean how team 'x' would have performed in Rangers' place?
Do you mean had Rangers not drawn beaten and lost to other SPL teams?

There was ony three points between Motherwell and Dundee United!

Please give us your supporing formulae for Motherwell's position when all these and other elements and potential results not listed have been factored in!

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
You're actually asking me to define "without Rangers"?

If you can tell me which of the two words you are having difficulty in understanding the meaning of, I'll do my best to explain...

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
All of your words in the context of the 2011/2012 SPL with all games having been played, all results win, lose and draw recorded.

"Strange how the document neglects to mention that without Rangers, Motherwell would have finished second!

Do you mean had Rangers not played in the 2011-2012 SPL?
Do you mean how team 'x' would have performed in Rangers' place?
Do you mean had Rangers not drawn beaten and lost to other SPL teams?
Do you mean you wished Rangers had been deducted 14 points?

Absolute mathematical nonsense!

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
I'm not quite sure what the difficulty with your understanding is here.

Motherwell finished third.

There were two teams above them.

If one of those was removed, and all other variables stayed equal, Motherwell would have finished second.

I can't believe I'm actually having to explain 3-1=2 to someone, I think might be being trolled.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Clearly you are struggling!

What are all other variables?

What rule or justification would you suggest would permit Rangers to be removed from second position?

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
All other variables is exactly what it says. I'm not going to explain basic arithmetic to you, if you need help, look it up.

No-one suggested that this would be applied retrospectively. This is a hypothetical situation which explains how Motherwell would actually be better off without RFC(In Liquidation) in the SPL, using last season as an example.

Anything else you need cleared up?

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
So in your little hypothetical world what team would have replaced Rangers in the 2011-2012 season, what would have been all the scores in all the games and the final table positions of all teams including team 'x'?

You are talking nonsense!

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
All variables being equal, it would be the team which was top of the SFL First Division which would have replaced RFC(In Liquidation).

The scores are as irrelevant as any other individual statistic, the positions would be the same for all teams above RFC(In Liquidation), and moved up by one for all teams below RFC(In Liquidation).

Motherwell would have gained an additional £965,000 in SPL prize money for finishing second. I'm not quite sure why you're trying to make this convoluted, it's a simple enough exercise.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Only in your mind does it appear simple because you never thought this through before you pressed 'Leave Comment'

Now what I suggest you do is go over all the games Rangers played in the SPL in 2011-2012, won, lose and draw and remove all points awarded to all teams and all goals scored for and against all teams then you will arrive at a hypothetical mathematical league table solution.

Now who ended up second in place?

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
All other variables being equal, it would be Motherwell, as I've stated, for about the 4th time now.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
There is a difference between calculating and guessing which you clearly do not comprehend!

You are confusing your desires with facts!

Now do the maths!

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
I have. It's Motherwell.

You're probably thinking that it's Dundee Utd, but as I said, this is a hypothetical situation with "all other variables being equal".

In any case, I'm not really sure that it's an argument you should be going for.

All you're doing is claiming to show how another SPL side would be better off by nearly £1m than one other SPL side. I'm not sure how that is supposed to show that anyone was better off with RFC(In Liquidation) in the SPL. It's still £1m in your own erroneously calculated situation.

Declan Murphy 23/06/2012 Report this place
Wrong!

Co-ordinator 23/06/2012 Report this place
declan really you have to much to say that one of the worstt thing about internet it gives little non entities a voice like you

trueblue 23/06/2012 Report this place
No wonder Motherwell talking about gate loss etc, they never fill their stadium or fill any away stadium with their allocation of tickets and that goes for the biggest majority of teams. All the teams will suffer without the GERS but heyho I would rather go down than accept any favours from these teams. However, I will monitor their financial situations next year if they are still trading??? I for one, will not renew ESPN to watch teams who are mediocre and if I am honest quite boring to say the least.

Why did the SFA not make the rules years ago when Celtic nearly went bust until Fergus McCann bailed them oot at the 11th hour, the governing bodies should have drawn up regulations then, instead of making up new rules every week.

truebluebelle 24/06/2012 Report this place
No NEWCO in SPL.

Sporting integrity and fairness MUST win.

Any club voting yes to the newco into the SPL will suffer heavily for a long time. Whereas, if they vote no and have change within the game in Scotland, including bringing more young Scots through to the first teams in the SPL and less sub standard foreigners and less buying for the sake of buying... this could mean a better Scotland team, lower prices but higher attendances ... let us go back to the good old days.

We need to see fairness over greed.

NO to NEWCO in SPL !!!

This is a message from ALL fair minded supporters no matter what team they support.

dadabongo 24/06/2012 Report this place
£5.5 million - 3.5 of which for administrators, 1.1 of which for liquidators ...

leaving less than £1million for the purchase of assets worth over £105million.

Leaving nothing for creditors.

STRANGE ... VERY STRANGE ... so do we allow the newco into the SPL ... NO !!!

Motherwell need to remember ALL the supporters who will stay away from them for years to come if they vote yes based upon the fact their figures are wrong in many respects.

NO to NEWCO in SPL

dadabongo 24/06/2012 Report this place
true blue I see you still havnt got a better grip on the English language.Can you please give me your definition of bigot for its clearly used out of context by you on every occasion.Because somebody doesnt agree with you is not enough basis to class them as a bigot but of course you wouldnt know this you retard.You are the bigot,you vile piece of scum.You are a disgrace to Rangers and all decent footbal fans.Do everyone a favour and crawl back under the piece of dog excrement you came out from

willie blue 24/06/2012 Report this place
With no Rangers in the SPL someone will benefit from extra prize money for finishing second behind Celtic in a league that's decided before it's even kicked off, for most of us that changes nothing. There is no way of telling who that will be and if Motherwell have to cut their cloth by a huge amount to fend off administration it's unlikely to be them. Also the cash for second will be reduced, Sky will keep the deal going that is currently running as they have already stated, what they also stated was that they will re-negotiate the terms of that deal as they will be recieving an inferior product (like it or not if we're honest we know that's what it'll be). That is their contractual right. A mate of mine has already been offered his company's usual club sponsorship banner at almost half price by an SPL club as they know sponsorship will be more difficult to keep when they sell an inferior product. Those are just the realities of the situation we find ourselves in and this will affect everyone bottom to top. Will a little extra prize money and one qualifier game in europe against a team from another minor league earned by one team filter through to the finances of all the clubs needing to cut back? Is it definite or even likely that Motherwell will be that team? All Motherwell are doing here is sending out a warning to their own support, "looks like we're in bother either way, please come out and support us and don't moan if we ask for money or put prices up, if we don't we're f*****!"
I read this as Motherwell trying to get the realities through to the fans early in the hope that they'll turn out in numbers this year to help the club through a situation that is not of their own making. It's pretty much irrelevant how Motherwell vote as there will be enough "No" votes without them, my feeling on this pre-vote meeting is to try and arrange a unanimous "No" vote as this will maybe fend off boycotts from supporters of all clubs against the teams they say they love.
Smart move by all you club loving supporters out there, your team may vote for an option to try and prevent them from nearing administration, for you the supporters benefit, so you threaten to punish them by staying away and pushing them toward the very thing they were trying to avoid.... for your benefit. What great supporters you all are.

Rangers will most likely not be in the SPL next year as there are enough teams to vote "No" who are in a stable enough position or who think they can climb away from teams near them in a worse financial state. They dont care about the smaller clubs in the league and they wont vote through "integrity" they'll vote on what suits them as a club... as they always do, you only need to look at the votes on league reconstruction to prove that. It might be good PR to label it as an integrity vote but anyone believing this is just naive.
Just a suggestion... regardless of how your club votes support them, regardless of how the club you're away to any given week voted if you used to go to away games keep going, they're only trying to keep their clubs alive. Without continued support home and away the league is in even more trouble than it is now. If by some miracle Rangers stay in the SPL and you want to protest that then don't go to Ibrox. Support with "integrity".

As a supporter one thing I wont be doing is listening to the crap filling message boards on the net by Celtic fans who know they are in for a period of dominance and will likely pull away even further from the rest of us. "Yeah, you'll earn good money from finishing second", "the league will be more competitive" or "Cup runs will be easier, your club will win trophies".... aye right, like you care about anything beyond your bitterness, you dont care about my club.

The league is in trouble regardless, that's a fact, I want my club to vote "no" but I fear for our future so regardless of how they vote I'll be there supporting next year as usual.

HonestFan 24/06/2012 Report this place
@willie blue

I actually reported the comments by trueblue yesterday, who seems to be defaming an individual associated with Celtic FC, as well as making racist comments directed at myself, unfortunately STV appear to condone those views by their inaction in revoking the comments made.

Sad, but not unexpected.

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place
@Doc

Your Stupid or Just plain ignorant?
If you do your research, you will find that the club still actually exists, It was the company that Owned the team, Ibrox, murray park etc etc, where liquidated not the club.

Secondly if "Rangers" are no more, then how can the SFA take titles away from "Rangers" if apparently there is none, hmm strange. Also in many media reports from neil doncaster, D&P and so on state that the club will operate as normal but in a new company structure, key word there is "Company" not club!

I could go on for hours how "Rangers Football Club plc" the company do not exists but the club still do, company and club are separate, and do not get me started on celtic, who are currently owned but "two companys" one that pays players wage and so on and the other has the players and plays the fixtures. this so called company I speak of was formed in 2001, if you dont believe me do some research, but for now I will leave it at that.

James 24/06/2012 Report this place
James, the club doesn't exist.

The shares which were the club, from beginning to end, are now gone, and with them, the club died.

The SFA are going to retrospectively remove titles from a defunct club. I'm not sure what you think the block on that would be? Just because a club ceases to exist doesn't mean that action can't be taken against its previous record.

Neil Doncaster, along with all parties who have a vested interest, are doing everything they can to try and convince people that Charles Green FC is the same entity as the now defunct RFC(IL), and that it should be afforded special treatment over and above any club formed two weeks ago.

That's why Neil Doncaster must go, along with the rest of his colleagues who are intent on riding roughshod over the rules to afford special treatment to a newly formed club which isn't even a member of the SFA.

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place
21 point deduction for Motherwell going into administration, well, it's obvious I won't lose any sleep over that (hey, that'll average out at 10 points per period of administration they've been in).

As for Declan Murphy, pointless trying to talk sense to the guy, it's obvious that he's been dancing a merry jig since Valentines Day, all that joy has overloaded his somewhat simplistic mind to the point where reasoning is beyond him. He's desperate for the SFA/SPL to remove titles from whatever he wants to think still exists/doesn't exist (atleast he's not delusional enough to believe it never existed) without understanding that the club was an asset of the corporate entity, which was sold as part of a package inclusive of the training complex & Ibrox Stadium. What can you say, if anything it'll draw Celtic a bit closer to being level with us on titles (hence also why he wants us in the third division, gives them atleast 4 in a row).

He'll talk about "integrity" (like that exists at Parkhead), "rules" (irony, a Celtic fan discussing something bringing the game into disrepute) and tar all Rangers supporters as sectarian nuggets (despite no doubt knowing that there are similar braindead goons at Parkhead). Really his grasp of it is "AMAGAHD RANGURZ DED, MON RA SELLIK!"

bluenoseam 24/06/2012 Report this place
@bluenoseam

I've stated simple facts, which as of yet, no one is able to deny.

You are trying to claim that a club is an asset. This is where your argument falls down. As I have previously explained to you, and which you have chosen to ignore, is that the club is the company.

I've already explained that the club started out as an association of members (you may call them the founding fathers) in 1873, who converted their shares in the club into the shares of a plc in 1899. The same club, same shareholdings.

A club is not an asset of the shareholding, the club itself is the shareholding.

Those shares are now gone, and with it goes the club set up by what you may call the founding fathers.

This is a relatively straightforward matter, your denial of the facts does not alter them.

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place
Is that the same club which has Steven Naismith signed up for another 3 years?

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place
"I am extremely proud of the actions we took but I am disappointed and angry Rangers FC no longer exists in its original form"

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH!

READ EM AND WEEP!

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place
Have to laugh when I read about .............INTEGRITY and PAYING TAXES and CHEATING when it's in the context of FOOTBALL.

This past week there's been a great deal of publicity about individuals in the entertainment business being exposed for avoiding paying taxes something that all businesses strive to do each year and hire accountants to find ways of minimising their tax bills.

Self employed tradesmen have done exactly the same for years as have charities and farmers and others so why the fuss about the Ibrox based business.

So many " holier than thou " comments have been made over the past year or so by supporters of other clubs and I can't help wondering how many of them...............

Cheat on their own tax returns
Cheat on housing benefit
Cheat on the prices they charge customers
Drive vehicles which are untaxed or uninsured or have no MOT certificate
Drive while under the influence of drink or drugs.........and so on.

robm 24/06/2012 Report this place
It's also interesting to find out how many of those screeching about it thought Jimmy Carr was hillarious prior to his use of tax loopholes was exposed. Or think/thought that Sir Chris Hoy was a legend. Or bought their "missus" a Take That CD/DVD/Ticket for her Christmas/Birthday/Anniversary. Or texted their mate over Vodafone to discuss it. Or won a few quid off the back of a Lester Piggot punt. Or figured that the diddy men were brilliant.

But rest easy, I can confirm that in the 2+ years of self assessment i declared every penny to the taxman i got! Tax dodging is the fashionable shot at the moment, i guess other indiscretions are forgotten such as fiddling the gate numbers, amongst other things.

bluenoseam 24/06/2012 Report this place
As usual, it's the fault of everyone else, poor wee 'rainjurz' didn't do anything, it was big Chelsea fans who did it and ran away.

Delusional, as usual.

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place
Actually, it was the fault of David Murray (who I would write to my local MP to suggest rescinding his knighthood - but lets face it, the local MP's as much use as Murray), Craig Whyte & Paul Baxendale-Walker. But you clearly missed the point that I know of atleast a few people who've taken shots at Rangers' tax affairs while ignoring those i mentioned. (although i gave you the benefit of the doubt by leaving out Willie Nelson since it's a Sunday and the Whittaker news has put me in a good mood)

bluenoseam 24/06/2012 Report this place
You think that Jimmy Carrs (perfectly legitimate) use of a tax scheme has escaped the notice of the MSM? No one is aware of Lester Piggots previous record of accepting his punishment and doing his time?

You'll have to come to accept this sooner or later, but no-one is 'out to get' RFC(IL), anything which has happened to them is a consequence of not paying their way, of running up huge debts, and then not paying them.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the football section of the website. If you're looking to discuss Willie Nelson, I'm sure there's an entertainment section of the website where you can bang on about Willie Nelsons tax affairs to your hearts content.

Declan Murphy 24/06/2012 Report this place

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Motherwell board says loss of Rangers could put Well into administration

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